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  #11  
Старый 05.03.2009, 07:59
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Ok, that's fair enough. But let's talk a bit more about the flavor.
Now the first thing I'll say is I always tell people not to over think or split hairs over an analogy, as that's paying attention to the finger instead of the moon, but I think 'flavor' here is very appropriate.

Let's say I have three bowls of broth, ones pork, ones chicken and the other is beef. Could you tell which is which just by looking at them? Probably not, since broth all looks the same pretty much. You won't know until you make contact with it, that is, put it in your mouth and taste it, and then you can tell the flavor.

Another analogy might be a cotton T-shirt. (I use this one a lot when I'm trying to make a point about being mindful to harmonize with the conditions.) so let's say I'm wearing a cotton shirt. Can you REALLY KNOW what it feels like without touching it for yourself? No, because the quality of the cotton and thread count, etc. Will all affect the quality of how it feels.

So what I'm saying is, if we throw out 'signature moves', then how can we say what any flavor should look like? The only way to really tell is by contact.
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  #12  
Старый 05.03.2009, 15:20
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Цитата:

Let's say I have three bowls of broth, ones pork, ones chicken and the other is beef. Could you tell which is which just by looking at them? Probably not, since broth all looks the same pretty much. You won't know until you make contact with it, that is, put it in your mouth and taste it, and then you can tell the flavor.
Well... Being a cook I could argue but I agree ith your point.


Цитата:
So what I'm saying is, if we throw out 'signature moves', then how can we say what any flavor should look like? The only way to really tell is by contact.
I agree. We shouldn't assign a look to an art. It is what it is. Thats why I brought up quality of movement.

IME, when a person is good at manifesting principles in thier work they don't necessarally get a "look" but a quality to what they do. You can't always put your finger on it(without actually putting your finger on them). It doesn't necessaraly have a given look.

You can't really know it without feeling it. Thats why I like "flavor". You can see ingredients in a dish but you won't know how it tastes until it touches the toung.
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  #13  
Старый 07.03.2009, 08:05
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Цитата:
Well... Being a cook I could argue but I agree ith your point.
yeah, i should have said three bowls of chicken broth but one is plain, one has essence of garlic and the other essence of ginger.

then they would all look alike yet taste very different.

we need better smilies...
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  #14  
Старый 07.03.2009, 09:05
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По умолчанию The translation of Dasha's post on this topic in another russian MA forum

this is the post from this forum, Dasha explains her fight on Martial Arts Olympics.
Question:
What features of the style used in the fight can you point out?

Answer:
Let's divide it into 2 parts:
1. Things which common observer can easily see - the external part.
2. Things, which are very hard to see on the video, but which are obviously felt when used against you - the internal part. This also can be seen by a high-experienced practicioner of internal martial arts.

Some things which can be easily seen:

- Open frontal stance, inviting the opponent to attack, arms at the far distance;
- Power is generated by the 1st (wrist) section. That gives an opportunity to prevail when capturing the space, to deal with punches without using the close distance;
- There is no "switching" of the legs' muscles during the movement. The movement does not stop;
- Off-balancing the opponent on contact when striking or defending;
- Permanent attack;
- Jamming opponent's structure;
- No specific technics for offense or defense (If it is sanshou rules - it looks like sanshou, if muai-thai - like muai-thai, if tuishou - so you see tuishou, etc.)
- flowing the opponent;
- Offense or defense genereting the power from the feet, absorbing the energy of the strike using the hands;
- Split when striking;
- Body structure: opened back, condenced sturnum, shoulders, legament and bone structure.

2. The peculiarities of the style in the contact point, which are hard seen for the unexperienced observer:

- offense and defense is the one, there are no separate offensive or defensive movements;
- effecting centers of mass on strike, clintch, on any contact.
- strike goes through the whole structure of the opponent, no matter. what part of the body is in contact, at the same time of-balancing him.
- The opponent can not run away from the contact point and is stuck to it, because of 5 qualities in the point of contact. This does not allow him to continue attacking.

- you are formless, so you can not be caught on your reflex, habit, etc.
- The movement is circular, so the movement in your body and your strike do not not stop, you do not waste time on 'switching' from strike to strike.
- heep roll allows you to chang directions freely without stop.
- the power is generated by all the body joints;
- you use the unified force of the whole body.
etc.

we can write a lot on it, but it is not necessary. I tried to explain it in plain words using simple exaples. But that is the combination of everything which was mantioned, what does not allow the opponent to apply his technics. That is not because of his low level, or smth else.
And please, don't read this post through your past experience. Most of what i wrote about probably was not in your experience.

Последний раз редактировалось Vatican, 07.03.2009 в 09:10.
  #15  
Старый 07.03.2009, 09:32
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По умолчанию The translation of Dima Palii's post

Dima Palii (Baiun) a disciple to my Sifu (Alex) wrote this post after Dasha won her fights on Moscow sanda tournament.

What can be seen in the clip, by seconds:

Semi-final:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTiVI...y_videos_edit2 .

46 – 48 upper hands control
1min 03 sec – horizontal turn throw
1min 47 sec – horizontal whipe with counter-attack (right hand)
1 min 58 sec – horizontal whipe with counter-attack (right hand) - better view
2 min 22 sec – horizontal whipe with counter-attack
2 min 26 sec – 2 мин 27 сек – manipulating off-balanced opponent with meihua step
3.03 – sagital absorbing of the kicking leg, the energy goes down to the feet
3min 26 sec – 3 min 27 sec – meihua step with horizontal turn throw

4 min 00 sec – horizontal turn throw
4 min 20 sec – defending against the strike with the upper hands in horizontal plain
4 min 43 sec – beautiful sagital throw with grabbing the kicking leg
5 min 40 sec – horizontal turn throw

It is just the examples of application for those who are familiar with ILC. I did not pay attention to using of the structure, using the back, the heep roll, etc, because there is a lot to write.
with respect.
  #16  
Старый 07.03.2009, 11:42
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Thanks for posting those comments.
  #17  
Старый 07.03.2009, 12:14
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Viktor - thanks for the translations of Dasha's and Dima's posts. There's a lot of information there, and I'm sure I'll have to read through the posts several times before I can grasp much of what they are saying.

Peter
ps: Я надеюсь, что ваше недавнее Илицюань испытание прошло успешно.

Последний раз редактировалось Peter, 07.03.2009 в 12:17.
  #18  
Старый 07.03.2009, 21:53
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Цитата:
we need better smilies...
I wouldn't complain.
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  #19  
Старый 07.03.2009, 21:56
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Thanks for the translation Vatican!
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  #20  
Старый 01.05.2009, 14:02
Peter Peter вне форума
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I've heard some people describe ILC as a kind of "Fighting Taiji", but Sifu makes it quite clear that while ILC is based on Taiji and Zen principles (yin/yang etc.), it is definitely not a form of Taijiquan. So how would you guys describe the art of I Liq Chuan to others?

Peter
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