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  #11  
Старый 01.05.2009, 01:36
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welcome to the forum!
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Discipline, Concentration & Wisdom
  #12  
Старый 01.05.2009, 12:22
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thanks ashe.
I must say this forum is really a great idea so that all practitioners of I Liq Chuan can get together to share their thoughts, exchange information and simply chat with people with similar interests. i don't think i have seen any other martial arts style, at least here in Latvia, having such means of communication on the international level.
  #13  
Старый 17.05.2009, 14:45
Peter Peter вне форума
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Here's an article which weighs the pros and cons of training with katas/forms:

"... I think all martial artists can agree on is that the study of kata is definitely not a prerequisite for combative effectiveness. There are many highly-effective martial arts that do not include kata on their curriculum. A look at the effectiveness of the able practitioners of many 'kata-less' systems also shows that you can definitely produce effective martial artists without resorting to kata. If kata training is not a must in order to develop fighting skill, why do 'traditional systems' like karate bother with kata?"

http://www.usadojo.com/articles/iain...why-bother.htm

Peter
PS: The author has an entire series of articles devoted to this topic at:
http://www.usadojo.com/articles/arti...-abernethy.htm

Последний раз редактировалось Peter, 17.05.2009 в 15:21.
  #14  
Старый 18.05.2009, 11:20
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ensatus ensatus вне форума
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I would say that it always depends with what target on mind you do what you are doing. I think that in external styles forms are good to drill the basic practice (basic strikes, kicks, etc.) and to polish the technique, but if it stays there, only on aesthetic level, then there is no other practical use. I would also agree that forms serve as concentrated complex of techniques perhaps to preserve the style as it is and to teach those techniques to students in a catalogued manner.
In inner styles, however, when you concentrate on feeling your body, energy flows, etc. it has a whole different added value. External styles often just imitate the exact movement and bring it to automatism, i.e., train muscle memory.
  #15  
Старый 19.05.2009, 13:47
Chris Newell Chris Newell вне форума
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One of the reasons Karate has kata is for grading purposes. Kata add to the mix of assessable skills associated with each belt. Kata also train and re-enforce combinations but I take the point that they may not necessarily add to an individuals fighting skill. What is the definition of a effective martial artist anyway?
I agree with Ensatus that the practitioner’s intent is important and there is a difference between internal and external styles, the point about muscle memory is a good one. External styles are focused on a collection of specific techniques. And having said that I also know of several internal martial arts that also seem to have an endless list of technical layers in the way of forms etc. e.g. hsing i.
  #16  
Старый 19.05.2009, 15:44
ben ben вне форума
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One positive about the form is it can act as a gateway drug for learning more of ILC. I have had several students who were only interested in the form, and only interested in it for the meditative aspects. They have gradually become more and more interested in the other parts of the art without my ever pushing them in that direction.

For me, the form is good because it gets away from the repetitive nature of the 15. It is too easy for me to memorize a correctly felt movement in the (for instance) 15 basic exercises (for instance the upper hand wipe) and repeat the memory of the feeling rather than to experience the flow of correctness. When I do the form however because of the way it combines the elements of the 15 it is both paramount to maintain awareness and also very apparent when I don't, so it can help me re-set the mental component of solo training.
  #17  
Старый 19.05.2009, 18:01
Peter Peter вне форума
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Цитата:
.... I have had several students who were only interested in the form, and only interested in it for the meditative aspects. ....
Just out of curiosity, do you vary the aspects in which you perform the form - e.g., say in a meditative fashion, a soft flowing fashion or a more aggressive in-your-face fashion? It seems to me that the nature of the form radically changes based on the intent of the person performing the form (which keeps it interesting).

Peter
  #18  
Старый 19.05.2009, 22:39
ben ben вне форума
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No, I don't consciously mediate the form. I let people see what they are going to see. My goal in the form is harmonizing movement and unifying the 13 pts. Even when teaching or performing.

If I tried to do it aggressively, or flowingly, I would change a fundamental quality of the form.
  #19  
Старый 26.05.2009, 23:15
Peter Peter вне форума
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По умолчанию Butterfly Form vs. 21 Form?

Цитата:
My goal in the form is harmonizing movement and unifying the 13 pts. Even when teaching or performing.
Is this true for both forms - the Butterfly Form and the 21 Form, or do you have a different approach to the Butterfly Form?

I am now working on the applications for the 21 as well as the basic choreography for the Butterfly.

Peter
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