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  #1  
Старый 01.01.2009, 02:06
Chris Newell Chris Newell вне форума
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По умолчанию Nose or mouth breathing?

I've been reading Free Your Breath, Free Your Life by Dennis Lewis and he takes a pretty strong position against mouth breathing.
I tend to like cardio and aerobic exercise and find myself naturally mouth breathing to keep up the oxygen demand. Lewis argues against that and suggests learning how to nose breath at all times unless you are doing a specific breathing exercise.
My ashtanga yoga instructors are always at me to "shut my mouth" but frankly I find the aerobic demand of the practice requires mouth breathing. So when I'm at the yoga school I mind my manners but when I'm on my own I don't worry too much.
When we partner train and juice it up at ILC it can get aerobic and I also find myself mouth breathing and I've always used a mouth exhalation for fa jing and other types of chi qong.
Is it a question of one or the other? Is it about awareness and depth of the breath? Is there an ILC postion?
  #2  
Старый 01.01.2009, 05:40
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breathing through the nose has certain physiological benefits, none of which i can remember off the top of my head.

also, breathing through your nose is a sign you still have some gas left in the tank. in MA terms, when your opponent is breathing through his mouth, he's about done in.
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  #3  
Старый 03.01.2009, 01:58
Chris Newell Chris Newell вне форума
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Цитата:
breathing through the nose has certain physiological benefits, none of which i can remember off the top of my head
Nose breathing can calm anxiety particularly if you can combine it with an intentional slowing and deepening, i.e. filling the lungs from bottom to top.
Nose breathing filters the air better than mouth breathing.
And it also warms the breath better than mouth breathing, ideal for all you ILC practitioners in the northern hemisphere in the middle of winter.
Lewis also talks about mouth breathing making red blood cells sticky and restricting oxygen release but he doesn’t reference this “fact” properly so I have my doubts about the veracity of this.
If you train aerobic activities, over time your lung capacity will increase to compensate for the increased oxygen demand of your muscles, which in turn are using oxygen more efficiently.
So if you are fit (a critical consideration), and create a demand for oxygen to feed the fire, mouth breathing can deliver oxygen more efficiently to the lungs than nose breathing because you can fill your lungs more quickly.
  #4  
Старый 09.01.2009, 13:38
Peter Peter вне форума
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I did a search on the Internet on the subject of nose breathing vs. mouth breathing, and there seems to be a strong consenses that favors nose breathing. Mouth breathing is apparently only for when you are really gasping for breath or doing fa-jin. One more thing to think about during training ...

On a different thread, Steve Bobs had some insight about breathing in general, which I think is also relevant to this thread which is devoted to breathing, so I'm taking the liberty of also posting some of his comments below.

Peter

Цитата:
...
Yes breathing is an important part ! There are 2 schools of thought 1) that you synchronize your movements with your breathing, using your breath as the guide and 2) that you do the movement and over time your breathing adapts to the correct pattern.

They both end up the same !

There are also different types of breathing and types of exhalation

I would suggest a gradual process that can be developed at your own pace.

First take a deep breath and notice which part of your body expands.

You want the belly (diaphragm) to expand and to be relaxed. This is always the case to start with. If you follow the breath with the mind you are leading the qi down to the dantien (between 2/4 below the navel and inside the body).

Then breath out and pull the belly in and slightly tighten the abdomen and perineum. This is qigong 'natural' or 'Buddhist' breathing. It helps the internal organs, the heart and depending on the amount of tightening, the stomach muscles. You could even tighten the whole body on the out breath but be aware that it is a little dangerous and raises the blood pressure.

This is not the breathing you want for playing ilc But it helps to get the mind and breath to the dantien and is the crux of many styles of qigong and 'external' kung fu. Do this breathing intentionally twice a day for at least 20 mins and you'll have optimum health (that's a liable claim ).

Next is 'reverse-breathing' and again there are variations. In ilc this is emphasized in the 'tu-na breathing', it is so important that it is one of the 15 and the first movement of both the forms !
It is the same in breath as before. The out breath is different in that rather than tightening, you stay relaxed and 'drop' the breath so that you feel a sinking from the sternum to the dantien and the lower belly expands a little more. At the same time there is a sensation of expansion up the back, the lats and out to the fingers. Yin down the front and yang up the back.

I practice both. To me the first is collecting and storing the qi and the second is moving it around the body, the yin and yang of breathing

I use the first for running and cycling so I can get enough air into my lungs and it seems to make them both more meditative and qigong. ...

Steve
  #5  
Старый 09.01.2009, 16:18
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По умолчанию though quite busy, I can't miss this thread :)

At our yoga classes I have heard something like: "Breathing via mouth is almost like eating through the nose".

Of course, there might be some situations (cardio-aerobic exercises) when it seems that there is not enough oxygen and one wants to use his mouth.

I’ve heard from people with some medical background (as well as yoga), that oxygen is transferred to the blood only primarily at the moment when you breathe out. This happens due to the fact that the pressure in the lungs is at maximum when one makes an exhalation. And when people take a lot of air into their lungs (e.g. using their mouth to “help”) that is no guarantee at all that you will get more oxygen to your muscles and other parts of your body that need it.

Thus, basically you need to prolong your breathing-out phase to get more oxygen to your body.

At our yoga classes we breathe only through the nose. And due to the fact that the practice is VERY intensive, we use special breathing type named Ujjayi breath (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ujjayi_breath - a good and small article on it, where they state it is very similar to Tu-Na of Taoist Qi Gong practice, as well as some other details).

One of the physiological effects of this breathing is that the pressure at the lungs is several times higher than at normal breathing. And that is why it helps very much in oxygenizing your body at intensive practices that put high demand on you breathing system. This help to avoid mouth breathing.

I myself notice that during some of ILC basic exercises or at partner training I start unintentionally use this Ujjayi breath and it helps me doing everything else without using my mouth.

Apart from this breath there are some other pranayama exercises in yoga that can help make (with some regular practice) the muscles that are used while breathing stronger, increase the active volume of lungs, open substantially more alveoli. Some other ones can put some more blood from “depots” into circulation, which can also somewhat help oxygenize better. This might be especially beneficial for people with relatively small blood amounts, e.g. quite slim/underweight persons.

There are some other practices that minimize the overall consumption of oxygen (or I would say using it much more effectively) by the cells. This is primarily done by 2 types of practices – static muscle work (asansas for at least 2-3 minutes to make red muscles work) and pranayma with “non-breathing” exercises. Both of these practices do something like “chocking” effect on the cells. And since cells “do not like being suffocated by the “stupid” body owner”, they substantially increase amount of mitochondria (cell energy generators) - around 10 times after a correct regular practice for around 3 years. However, these practices of static asanas and pranayma with breath delays MUST go one after the other. Asanas re-build the cells of muscles initially. Pranayama does this for the whole body – brain, hearth, liver, kidneys, etc. And these internal organs are VERY much oxygen dependant/demanding. Starting regular strong pranayama practices before muscles use little oxygen can and in many cases documented in the long history of yoga does give huge damage to these important organs of ones body. Thus, these things are done one by one, 3 years for one, 3 years for the other.

These practices are some of the strongest things that yoga can do to a person from the physiological point of view. However, these things are dangerous and without a competent in both medicine and yoga people I would not recommend this to anybody.

I’m personally in the middle of the “asanas” 3 years, have done 1.5 years of these activities. I’m very lucky to do my classes with people that are dozens of years in both yoga and contemporary medical sciences. They were able to successfully combine the 2 things – huge experience of many thousands years and the contemporary approaches, methods, etc. Plus they have been doing themselves/teaching these practices for some time already.

I’m also more than sure that very many Qi Gong practices have also some very good and positive effect on human bodies from the physiological point of view (an mental of course as well). I simply do not know people who can/are interested in putting all these Taoist practices at their shelves from the contemporary scientific point of view. Anyway, some day somebody will, because there is a strong indication and historical evidence of substantial positive influence of them on humans.
  #6  
Старый 09.01.2009, 19:44
Marty Marty вне форума
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Breathing through the mouth during exertion is a surefire way to dehydrate.
  #7  
Старый 10.01.2009, 00:03
Chris Newell Chris Newell вне форума
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Цитата:
Breathing through the mouth during exertion is a surefire way to dehydrate.
During summer here in Perth it's pretty hot (35C+) and dry. When I'm out cycling on a hot day I'll try to hold a small mouth full of water while I peddle forcing myself to nose breathe and to create a bit of humidity at the same time. It’s a classic survival technique for the bush. And of course keep the fluids up generally.
  #8  
Старый 10.01.2009, 04:06
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Цитата:
During summer here in Perth it's pretty hot (35C+) and dry. When I'm out cycling on a hot day I'll try to hold a small mouth full of water while I peddle forcing myself to nose breathe and to create a bit of humidity at the same time. It’s a classic survival technique for the bush. And of course keep the fluids up generally.
you could always try hypoxic training methods!
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  #9  
Старый 15.01.2009, 23:47
Peter Peter вне форума
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Цитата:
At our yoga classes I have heard something like: "Breathing via mouth is almost like eating through the nose".
Wow, now there's an image that's hard to forget.

Since this thread started, I've tried to use nose-breathing more and breathe deeply from my diaphragm as well. The one concrete benefit I've noticed thus far is that after spending time outside in -7C weather, nose-breathing does seem to prevent my throat from getting raw and sore from the cold.

I'm also hoping that nose-breathing will protect me from all the viruses that are floating around on the public transportation system this time of year ....

Peter
  #10  
Старый 17.01.2009, 03:59
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Цитата:
Wow, now there's an image that's hard to forget.
homer simpson did it! and it was distrubing then, too...

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